The following interview took place in San Francisco in April of 2002:

Paul: I was going to give you the good seat…. You're going to transcribe?

Rachel: I'm not going to rely on my memory…

Paul: Sometimes memory is ….

R: Well, I like to rely on it for other things…

PW: (laughs) I always have a hard time with my memory…it failed me magnificantly last night

R: during the performance?

PW: Yeah

R: what happened?

PW: well I couldn't remember a damn thing….it's the essence of why I chose to do this because I wanted to ensure that I'd at least be in front of people who were aware of me or knew me and liked me and would forgive me because I can't play a song all the way through. And I never really could..but I could fake it with a band, but it's hard, my memory is shot

Cory: A friend of mine interviewed you a few years ago when the "All Shook Down" record came out and you said "I'll never play acoustic"…it's pretty surprising that you decided to do it.

PW: I figured, I kind of count it as a grown-up consolation for the fact that Vagrant signed me and they were sort of clueless as to 'what do we do next?' and I thought, well, what's the least expected thing?

R: When you say consolation, what do you mean?

PW: They give me money…and see I look at it like I give them music and they give me money and it's a fair deal but they don't look at it like that, they figure if they don't make their money back in this time and then make a profit in this time then they failed. The fact is that in 10 years they'll make a 100 times what they paid me. But I just wanted to let them know that I was willing to participate and do television shows.

R: Show them that you're a team player?

PW: it's kind of like it's a team that I could damn nearly lead.

PW: It's hard to say without sounding condescending towards any of them. They're all young and energetic and it's like…I instantly know when I'm being lied to. I've been lied to by the best.

R: How did the deal with Vagrant come about?

PW: They gave me the most money. Two reasons: they gave me the most money and I gave them what is the record - I call it 'the record', "Stereo / Mono" - I gave it to Darin who used to play bass with me who I hired as my manager / valet / henchmen / partner-in-crime, and said 'find someone who will release it exactly as it is - who is not going to change anything."

R: To release it as two records.

PW: Yeah, I mean, not like shop it around like 'oh listen to the potential here'. It's like we have a done record would you like to release it? If not we'll release it ourselves Rich jumped at the chance. Then he got hooked up with Interscope which held the whole thing up. He was totally independent and then he did the song-and-dance between Warner's and Interscope and I had to nine months wait and see. Not that it would really matter in the end, but that's what held it up.

C: So it had been done for that long?

PW: Yeah, I initially expected it to come out in October.

R: So what's it like being on Vagrant? With bands that are young, upstart punks…

PW: It's fun, it feels natural because it makes me feel old properly. I'm not quite so wise. I think I could teach them a thing or two - I can already tell. It will help them somewhere down the line with their bands. They've never dealt with a full-fledged creep (laughs). I say that cravenly but they've never dealt with an artist who had people who - I mean, I have 15 records and that's the difference between doing an in-store - most people don't do an in-store who have 15 albums. That's where it's very difficult and confusing to me to kind of go and be prepared to play anything when I can barely remember three of the new ones. People are calling out requests and I'm at a loss, I'm winging it every night, it's kind of tough. I'm not, I've got this hotel full of lyrics that make me cry…it's like three lines of a lyric on one page. It's too much. I'm ready to shut a lot of that - I made some headway today. I dropped a few and added a few. And the horrible thing I really loathe the modern aspect of technology. I did the first night and it was great and I talked to a Philadelphia reporter and he pretty much ran down what I did, it's like that instantaneous where the next show in Portland - I just had to shoot from the hip last night and shot myself in the foot half the time. But I'm determined not, to keep them guessing. It used to be easier but it required wits and wit and I'm running out of wits.

R: You still have your wit…

PW: Yeah, it came in handy last night.

C: I saw the Seattle set list, like you said…technology. I had to see is he playing two songs? We drove like two hours to get here.

R: And got a ticket on the way.

PW: (laughs) Cool.(gives the thumb up)

C: You did like 13 or 14 songs in Seattle

PW: Someone said 'it's an almost an hour..' I could have done three - I am truly enjoying myself.

C: Do you miss playing out?

PW: I am - now. It's not like we can't even put it in terms - I am out, I'm playing, I'm standing there. It's the nakedest I've ever been and it's amazing how quiet they are. I don't blame them - for one they're not drunk and neither am I. There's that magical thing called drums When there are not drums people kind of drums, I've got to stomp my foot for rhythm (demonstrates). Inevitably a lot of the choices - I end up playing a set of dead people songs. Here's one about a guy who killed himself and here's one about someone dying - but they seem to be everybody's favorites. (Laughs). Sad but beautiful.

C: I saw an interview with you on a Warner promotional thing and you were talking about playing live with the Replacements and you said you'd love to have the chance to play "Skyway" because yeah you were playing all the rowdy songs but there was that one lonely soul in the back of the room dying to hear that song.

PW: I try to, I tried to last night for about 10 minutes and people yelling out the next line for me and I don't even know the next chord. It's truly-without the humor it could be slightly pathetic. It's, I'm not embarrassed because I've made a fool of myself before. It's beyond that. It's almost, you're seeing something happen before your eyes - like change in the way. I equated it to something vulgar last night. I equated it to being something like sleeping with your sister. I don't know why I said that but it was the vilest thing I could think of. But I'm sure somebody does it. This record was made by - I would sit down and make the drum go and I would just entertain myself and sometimes it would be really really good and then to think two-and-a-half years later I have to remember how to do that … that part of my brain is thoroughly damaged. I've lost my ability to .. part of it's the anti-depressants. I'm on all kinds of medication that pretty much evens it out. You wouldn't know the difference because I'm 42 and I wouldn't swing from a chandelier anyway. And I'm probably a little bit more even-tempered anyway than I once was. I play at home with Michael Bland and Jimmy Anton and we play like this. And OK, Paul wrote all these songs and stuff .. I'd do it for free.

.C: I can't quit listening to the new Grandpaboy record.

PW: You can't?

C: Somebody at Vagrant sent us the advance of the solo record and I was digesting that and I was blown away by the Grandpaboy record.. They're two different things altogether.

PW: But you said you can't listen to it…

C: No, I can't quit listening to it…

PW: Oh..thank you! I was sitting here thinking…

C: No, I can't…there's not a bad song on it, the whole thing just flows…

PW: I like it and that's the key…no one's going to say 'oh do it again Paul, change that". Every single one I liked.

C: Were there any other musicians with you on that?

PW: I created all those alter egos to the point where I would literally change clothes to play the different parts. We've already had to send statements, Guns'n'Roses had to release this statement saying Tommy Stinson did not play ..That's starting to become a game where I think they're actually realizing that 'hey, it's not hurting Axl's career to be talked about"

C: Nobody else is talking about him.

R: That's why people are talking about him…

PW: I think if anything Tommy would be the most offended because he thinks my bass playing is fairly rank and I've always thought the same of his.

C: So talking about doing something maybe completely different…

PW: Well, completely different … no

C: Well, Vagrant signing you seemed to me like they were doing something like maybe Epitaph is doing in signing a Tom Waits or a Merle Haggard, a Joe Strummer. I put you in that category, for them it was a big step.

PW: They started with one, it's similar to like when Sire - Madonna was already a star by then, but once a label has a core of bands that are (successful) then the owner goes out and gets their hero if they can. Maybe they sign Jimmy Scott, or they had Lou Reed just because he's Lou Reed and he should be allowed to be heard.

C: Do you think that all these artists who were on majors who are now on indies - is it the state of the industry that's causing that? Or is it artists wanting more control and freedom. Or a little bit of both?

R: Do you feel better being on an indie?

PW: Right now I'm more comfortable with Vagrant -. That Suicane record to me was really good and I wasn't going to tour with it and I knew that and I knew that and I knew that Rich was going to be gone after that. And to me it really felt like it was the end of an era and something was coming full circle. But as far as hiring guys to show me how to do it, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't pay off - the high priced management and producers like Don Was who I really really liked and had fun with. But it's like, I don't think there's anyone who could have - at least with this record - there wasn't anyone who could make it better. I know a lot of people who could have made it worse. I don't know if I'm going to make this record again.

R: What was behind the decision to release them both together at the same time?

PW: It was sort of an elaborate ploy on my part for two reasons. One to ensure that - well first people don't know they're separate albums - if they did retailers would charge $24. We're taking a hit because we don't want - I wasn't out to make a big-priced record, I just wanted to give you as much music as possible. And I was adamant about separating the actual discs so if you felt like Grandpa Boy you could listen to that and if you were more into listening to lyrics or whatever you could listen to the other record. But that's one reason. There's interchangeable stuff - they hold together. I look at it as one double album. If it was vinyl it would be one double record for the price of one - which cant be done. I'm screwing myself but I'm not because I own the publishing to the songs and I'm looking at it from the standpoint of it's best for me to have 23 songs out even if the record costs $2 - it only cost me a thousand dollars to make. I spent more money - it was cheaper than the 'Mats first record and I never made any money from that. I've learned a few things.

C: On the new record, your choice to use the Flesh for Lulu cover, was there any sort of "out on the ledge again / ready to jump again", was there any sort of connection with "The Ledge"?

PW: It certainly fit!

C: It's a great song …I love Flesh for Lulu

PW: I didn't know who it was, it was on a road tape trip that we used to listen to in the van and it had a bunch of different things. And that song came on and it was like 'oh yeah!' But I didn't know who it was. I just recorded it, we had to hunt it down - I thought it was like Gene Loves Jezebel…

C: Yeah, they were kind of clumped in with that …

PW: Oh they wanted me to take that off (the album) so bad. And I told them it's going on

C: Who did? The band?

PW: No, Vagrant, because they're too young to understand that it's cool. It's hard to explain.

R: Well it doesn't fall into - there are some things that are older that are cool but there's older and not cool too.

PW: (laughs) It's not old enough …that's why it's cool. And that's why it's there.

R: It's very unexpected.

PW: Exactly. And it was not my idea to make it a hidden track. And they messed up, apparently there are 12 songs on Stereo - that's bullshit, there are 14. They blew that …it was like "how dare Paul play this new wave thing". It's me trying to say, three songs earlier it was "Mr. Rabbit" - a traditional folk minstrel song that probably goes back to 1896. Then you have a blatant commercial new wave song - I love them both.

C: Yeah they're both songs.

PW: Exactly.

C: I actually went back - I have that Flesh for Lulu record and hearing their version - it was very slick.

R: It's still a good song …

C: Mentioning the "Mr. Rabbit" - initially I didn't know that was a cover. It was the one song that stuck in my head, I was singing it around the house for weeks…I didn't think about it initially, it was later that I realized it was the second rabbit reference. You had mentioned in "Once Around the Weekend"

PW: Right…

C: I didn't realize it was a traditional song until I got the actual package and saw it.

PW: The irony is that the program director in Chicago went and out and got the record and what song does he choose to play but "Mr. Rabbit"? It's like wouldn't it be nice if all these years of writing songs

R: And your hit is this song you covered…

PW: Yeah, it was probably written by Blind Lemon Jefferson

C: And the royalties are probably not going to his family…

PW: Well, I don't know how that works - if it's traditional, if it's public domain.. I think it's a vaguely familiar negro spiritual minstrel song.

C: How did you first hear it?

PW: I got it from a Burl Ives record…That's what I'm guessing. It's about, the metaphor for the rabbit that's dying it's like your turn to die…the gray…it might have gone back to the Civil War…the blue and the gray…I was digging it in the car with my little boy, (sings) "Mr. Rabbit, Mr. Rabbit …"

C: How has your fatherhood affected your playing

R: Or songwriting?

PW: It hasn't edited me as much…I probably bent over backwards, hence the Grandpa Boy thing - first of all put a picture that would horrify on him. Which was not done for that reason, I would have done it anyway and it was like "I can't not do this just because I have a little boy." I have to teach him that these things co-exist. Daddy plays catch and does real things and then Daddy goes and wears funny clothes and plays rock'n'roll and does funny things.

C: Is that why you took some time off?

PW: I was ready to quit before - I don't know if it was before he was born or mentally conceived - I was ready to quit son or no son. I think it was a matter of I reached the end and what do I do next. It seemed like the next, I was encouraged by someone that you should become a father. It's the best thing I ever did.

R: How old is he?

PW: He's three-and-a-half, he'll soon be four. What it really really does, is it makes you feel like a son. I never felt like a son before and then suddenly it's like 'oh, I love you Dad'. I never did the shit he wanted, I cowered away, I never listened to him. All of that came roaring back. And the fact that he was on death's door -just to see the little boy. There's no one in my family that has any children, not my brothers and sisters. It sort of brought me back to life. To see the little dude who to me looks like my father. I (now) believe in God - that made it. I will admit it's the last time my temper actually came in handy because she was going into labor and Johnny was strangling the cord and the doctor was going to come back in four hours because that's when he's supposed to come back in and the baby was in distress and my mother was there saying prayers in the hallway. I ran out in the hallway and just let it rip to the nurse: get that motherfucking doctor off that goddamned golf course. And he was there in a half hour and they cut her open and they pulled him out.and he was purple. They whacked him and he didn't cry for two days but he was OK. So I will maintain to the day I die that my temper was good for something.

C: Is he your biggest critic?

PW: (laughs) He tells me I play the piano too loud. We play rock'n'roll games where he likes to act things out. We play Johnny-the-Ripper where he puts on a top hat and runs around. He likes rock'n'roll, he likes loud, fast rock'n'roll but he doesn't actually like to hear me play loud stuff.

R: He likes to keep it separate?

PW: Yeah, he already wants center stage - how dare you steal the spotlight?

R: Does he have a drum kit?

PW: He jumps on the drum kit - it's amazing, he picked up the trombone - I've got everything laying around and he grabs everything. He actually blew some notes on the trombone - I mean, I can't blow anything. But I don't think he'll be a musician, I don't know what he'll be. Probably an actor or something because he's very a pretender. (Notices his interviewers looking at each other)-- What was that look for?

R: It was a married couple look

C: It was 'are you going to ask something or am I going to ask something?'

PW: Are you two going to have a baby?

 

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